WARNING: This article contains some movie spoilers!
The Conversation is a powerful Croatian film directed by Dominik Sedlar originally released in 2022 and finally released in the US and Canada on December 6 on-demand via stream platforms including fandango and is available online to purchase on DVD.
The movie can be rented for $5 via streaming in English with Croatian subtitles. The Conversation is an historical drama that recreates the only recorded meeting between the General Secretary of Yugoslavia, Josip Broz Tito (played by Caspar Phillipson) and the Archbishop of Zagreb and the Head of the Croatian Catholic Church, Blessed Alojzije Stepinac (played by Dylan Turner). The meeting conducted by Tito was set at his office at the Banski Dvori in Zagreb on June 4, 1945, during the end of World War II and after the Yugoslavian partisans declared victory.
This movie masterfully centers these two prominent figures as the primary focus throughout the film with several supporting characters, including then Prime Minister of the Socialist Republic of Croatia, Vladimir Bakarić (played by Vinko Stefanac), who was leading a team of OZNA agents (Yugoslav Secret Police) to record the meeting from a floor below Tito's office. The premise of the meeting was to arrange a special appointment for the Croatian archbishop to sever diplomatic ties between the Croatian Catholic Church and the Vatican and for the Croatian church to coexist with the communist party.
Both Tito and Stepinac revealed their ideological differences in this film. General Secretary Tito is portrayed as the fervent atheist, who sought to use his victory against the fascist regime, the Independent State of Croatia or the Independent State of Croatia (NDH) to form a government system that models Marxism and radical social and economic equality for all ethnicities to live under the Yugoslavian identity with an iron fist. To achieve this system, he sought to crush any form of nationalism and fascism that was expressed by the Ustaše and Chetniks and targeted anyone suspected of being a Nazi collaborator. Alojzije Stepinac, a Catholic Archbishop and Croatian patriot, believes in the natural truths of human worth and value, and the independence and sovereignty for Croats. He was portrayed as confident and stoic when visiting Tito who bravely rejects repeatedly when offered whiskey during the beginning of the meeting and continues to resist his small offer repeatedly. Further into the meeting Archbishop Stepinac eventually rejects Tito's main offer to sever diplomatic ties and is threatened by him to accept "full responsibility for any consequences" if he totally rejects him. Their meeting quickly heats up when these ideological differences clash with one another, especially when Tito addresses several ironies about Stepinac's role as a man of God and his former position as Archbishop for the NDH regime.
The Conversation recognizes Archbishop Stepinac's position to defend his role while Tito throws him accusations for his contradictions in his role as a man of God who made the "deal with the devil." Archbishop Stepinac fervently defended his position on behalf of the Croatian people where dispersion for independence caused them to fall into the influence of fascism. He also defended his position as the servant to the Croatian people, his role to call out against the crimes committed by the Ustaše militia throughout Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, including the crimes in the Jasenovac concentration camp, which worsened his relationship with the leader of the NDH, Dr. Ante Pavelic.
The events from World War II were mentioned through the conversation, including Tito's campaigns in Bosnia and Herzegovina. As Tito recalled atrocities committed by the Ustaše and Catholic Church's involvement, Archbishop Stepinac also mentioned his role in saving at least 6,000 Jews from the persecution under the NDH, several excommunication of priests who were active with the militia, and his sermons that vocally expressed his opposition to both fascism and communism. He also requested Tito to exhume mass graves and identify the remains of crime scenes committed by Yugoslav partisans, including a monastery at Široki Brijeg, Bosnia and Herzegovina, where 65 Franciscan Friars were executed without trial. Tito was not reluctant to admit such crimes and accused the friars, including Archbishop Stepinac, of being Nazi collaborators and deserved whatever happened to them. He also reminded him of the "consequences" that will happen if he does not comply with the requests of the Yugoslav authorities. It is very rare for historical motion pictures in Croatia or anywhere in the world that clearly address Yugoslavian partisan crimes committed by Tito during World War II, where most movies primarily focus on the crimes committed by the Axis forces and Tito as the "liberator" for the Allies. Sedlar addresses these crimes committed by the communists along with the ones committed by the NDH very well and portrays General Secretary Josip Broz Tito for who he really is, a manipulative war criminal. The conversations woven into subjects relating to religion, philosophy, history, and love. Archbishop Stepinac's faith is shared through his passion and love for serving the Croatian people and admiration for their long-awaited fight for national sovereignty, while Tito portrays his atheistic beliefs in terms of his thirst for power, liberating the global proletariat through a series of violent revolutions, and desires for worldly pleasures and avariciousness to materialism. The movie portrays these different perspectives brilliantly through a series of flashbacks of their past that would define their path in life and motivations. Archbishop Stepinac's past struck an impression with Tito and the OZNA, specifically his ex-fiancé Marija Horvat. Marija Horvat (played by Doris Pinčić) is one of the few characters and Croatian speaking actors without any dialogue, but she is presented as a physical form in the memory of his conscience. From her moments of writing a letter to approve of his engagement to her tragic death from a vehicular accident in 1939, these events provided a glimpse of Archbishop Stepinac's complex relationship with Marija, including the scene where he visits her grave carrying a bouquet of white tulips , revealing his affectionate care for her despite calling off the engagement. The movie reveals Tito using his tactics of manipulations to use events collected by the OZNA to remind Archbishop Stepinac's vows of chastity and loyalty to Pope Pius XII is just as fragile as his short-lived engagement with Marija in another attempt to accept the Vatican offer.
Like Marija Horvat, the OZNA agents and Tito's personal staff, played by Croatian actors, have limited to no speaking roles. The scenes with Marjia would make sense since Archbishop Stepinac barely knew or rarely interacted with her to even remember her voice. However, the lack of dialogue from the other characters like Vladimir Bakarić causes too much ambiguity in the details and motives of each character if the viewer is not familiar with the historical background. Sedlar wanted to focus primarily on the dialogue between Tito and Archbishop Stepinac, but the lack of dialogue by Tito's personal staff next door and the agents in the recording room made it feel more like a documentary than a motion picture movie.
Overall, the Conversation was excellent in recreating the meeting that shaped and changed Croatia's modern history. It leaves plenty of thought-provoking scenes that would be of interest for both Christians and non-religious audiences to listen to the debates that tackle theological, philosophical, and political dichotomies; and what better way to have these concepts challenged on the big screen by the two most powerful and influential Croatian historical figures. The movie is about an hour and 48 minutes, but it eloquently addresses the political situations during Yugoslavia after the war and the existence of the Croatian Catholic Church within a limited time frame that used a context suitable for a 3-part miniseries. It clearly demonstrates Archbishop Stepinac's fearlessness to speak the truth and not back down against his faith and the importance of solidifying the Croatian Catholic community's relationship with the Vatican. For those in the Croatian American diaspora and for those who are practicing Catholics, this is a must see because it serves to be a great reminder for all Croats to remember their cultural roots, honor their family heritage, and to always protect them through faith in God, love for humanity, and perseverance through terrible outcomes. I hope this movie will serve to provide a positive message to consider Blessed Alojzije Stepinac's long-awaited canonization.
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